minority leader nancy pelosi as she prepares to address democrats today. will she stay in her role or will she be stepping down? >> good morning. 48 days until we reach the fiscal cliff, unless congress and the president act. i'll tell you what falling off that fiscal cliff could mean for you and the greater economy. a massive recall from toyota. millions of cars called in because of a steering problem. what you need to know. >> among our guests today, new york congressman steve israel will be joining us. newt and callista gingrich. author kitty kelley. pennsylvania congressman allyson schwartz. patty murray is with us and director oliver stone. it is wednesday, november 14th. "starting point" begins right now. >> look at me i'm whistling our theme song this morning. you're watching "starting

point." the scandal, and it's spreading, is now engulfing two four-star generals. there are some new details about the woman who is at the center of it all. her name is jill kelley. she is described as a tammpy socialite. she first reported she's anonymous harassing e-mails to an fbi agent friend, and that ended up triggering an investigation. those e-mails eventually turned out to be sent by paula broadwell. that would be david petraeus' biographer. and eventually turned out his mistress, as well. we mentioned it was a web, didn't i? and it is. the affair exposed general petraeus and he was forced to resign as the cia director. well, now the general john allen, who is the top u.s. commander in afghanistan, is being investigated for trading alleged quote flirtatious e-mails with ms. kelley over the last couple of years. we're hearing from ms. kelley for the first time in a 911 call to tampa police that happened over the weekend. she's complaining about crowds outside of her home and tries to claim protection as a citizen diplomat. here's what she said. >> you know, i'm, i don't know

if by any chance, because i'm an honorary consul general, so i have inviolability, so they should not be able to cross my property. i don't know if you want to get diplomatic protection involved as well. but now it's against the law to cross my property since this is now like, you know, it's inviolable. >> all right. no problem. i'll let the officers know. >> thank you. >> meantime, the senate intelligence committee wants to be briefed both by petraeus and his replacement, michael morrell. cnn's jill dougherty is at the state department digging into some of this really confusing web i think it's fair to say. good morning to you, jill. >> hey, soledad. you know, let's begin with that honorary consul general. in tampa, apparently, from what we can understand, jill kelley was totally a volunteer. she was a volunteer with an international organization that greets international visitors, and then also, in some capacity,

she was helping to promote a trade agreement with south korea. at least that is the understanding. and in that capacity, the south korean government, according to yonhap news agency, which is the official south korean news agency, they gave her an honorary consul appointment. it has no legal standing. it is not a diplomatic post. it is totally voluntary. and has no rights. so when she is saying there, you know, my property is inviolable, it would appear at this stage to be, let's say, a gross exaggeration of what's going on. but that doesn't mean that she didn't have contacts -- oh, and i should say that yonhap is saying that the south korean government says if this becomes problematic they would lift that honorary consul degree. but they are definitely the administration is sticking with general allen, and i think we have a quick sound bite from secretary panetta, the defense secretary, saying exactly that.

>> no one should leap to any conclusions. no one should leap to any conclusions here. general allen is doing an excellent job at isaf in leading those forces. he certainly has my continued confidence. to lead our forces, and to continue the fight. but his nomination has been put on hold as a prudent measure until we determine what the facts are. and we will. >> okay. so he continues, general allen, continues in his post as the top nato u.s. commander in afghanistan. but that nomination as the supreme allied commander in europe is on cold. it's all a bit of a mess right now. >> jill dougherty for us. the petraeus drama is playing out while the fiscal cliff, remember that, inches closer and closer towards us. just 48 days away. brianna keilar joins us from washington, d.c. so, brianna, i guess you have this fiscal cliff, that the administration is dealing with, at the same time you have this

unfolding scandal. how is the administration, or has the administration really been dragged into the scandal? >> it's certainly been a distraction. if you watched the white house press briefing yesterday you could see almost all of the questions revolved around this scandal involving generals petraeus and allen. so we know that. certainly. but, jay carney, the white house press secretary, was downplaying this was a distraction, saying the president is still very much focused on the fiscal cliff. we do know, however, that this situation has taken some of the president's time, a limited amount of time, carney said. but at the same time, we know that a lot of staff hours get dedicated to something like this kind of scandal. meantime, carney said that president obama still thinks very highly of general allen. he said that he thinks highly of the job that he's done in afghanistan, and of his service. here's what he said yesterday. the first time that carney had briefed after this scandal had broke. >> he has faith in general allen, believes he's doing and

has done an excellent job at isaf, and i would refer you to the pentagon for the process under way with regards to general allen. >> meantime, soledad, president obama will welcome dozens of business leaders to the white house today. some of whom support something he wants to do, which is increase taxes on the wealthy. obviously the white house is hoping that maybe that will convince some house republicans to budge on this a little bit. although i've talked to some republicans who say, don't count on that. soledad? >> all right. brianna keilar for us this morning. thanks, brianna. cnn's special coverage of the president's news conference will begin at 1:00 p.m. eastern time. wolf blitzer is hosting that, and we will obviously carry that for you live when it happens. want to talk a little bit more about the fiscal cliff. chief business correspondent ali velshi joins us. you heard brianna talk about this meeting with ceos about that. how much of that is pr and how much of that is really critical conversation? >> well, the very conservative leaders, and anti-tax leaders,

have called the whole thing pr. they think it's giving the president cover. you see there the ceos of aetna, xerox, american express, honeywell, walmart, ge, dow, procter & gamble, ford, pepsi. these are not people who are hostile to the president, so is it giving him cover? these are big employers. the president needs to discuss the fiscal cliff and taxes with them. what the allegation is is that there are no representatives of small business there and no representatives of the don't touch taxes, the grover norquist u.s. chamber of commerce group represented there. that's a relationship the president doesn't have. >> i think it could be you're right i don't know that all of them you put up that big list and showed all the faces. not all of them are pro-obama. >> but they are not the most hostile bunch about the president. >> and it is a sliding scale. ali velshi, thank you. from the fiscal cliff to what is cliffhanger truly on capitol hill, the minority leader nancy pelosi. is she going to retire? expected to announce her decision later this morning.

cnn's senior congressional correspondent dana bash is following some of those developments there. what do you think? is it a yes or a no? what are folks saying? >> we don't know yet but you can barely turn a corner on capitol hill without hearing open speculation. few people really know the answer. i'm told even nancy pelosi's own staff doesn't know. the people i'm talking to, who i suspect do know, won't give me a hint. nancy pelosi has been the house democratic leader for ten years. four of which she was the speaker of the house. and by all accounts she leads her caucus with an iron fist. now she left a lot of her democratic colleagues pretty shocked two years ago when she decided to stay on as minority leader when she lost the gavel. now she really seems to be enjoying this intrigue about her future. listen to what she said yesterday. >> let's see, what time is it now? it's 2:00. on tuesday. i'll see you right here, 10:00 tomorrow morning. while i love you all very dearly i thought maybe i would talk to my own caucus before i shared

that information with you. >> now that meeting with democratic colleagues is in fewer than two hours, 9:00 a.m. eastern, then she has a press conference an hour later. i've got to tell you, adding to the intrigue, she will appear with house democratic women. now could that mean she will say, well, she wants to show why she wants to remain the highest ranking woman in congress? or it could be that she wants to show how proud she is that there is an historic number of younger women, or women in general who could potentially take her place. there are so many possibilities. one that i heard is that she may be considering and now saying that she will stay on as leader until the end of her term in two years which would allow younger, newer leaders to position themselves to take over. >> wow. so we just don't know. we're going to have to wait for her press conference is what she's saying pretty much. dana bash, thanks, as always, appreciate it. john berman's got a look at some of the other stories making news for us. >> there aren't many mysteries in washington. that's a good one. >> usually you get some leaks on that, huh? >> three hours. give it time. superstorm sandy's latest vick tell is the head of the long island power authority.

lipa's michael hervey announcing his resignation effective at the end of the year. his utility has been under fire for a slow response to sandy. he's defended lipa's action calling the task herculean. many new jersey homeowners are already paying the price for hurricane sandy and they're about to pay a little more even still. governor chris christie says residents of towns that require extensive rebuilding efforts can expect to see their property taxes go up. >> there's no magic money tree. but i think that most people in these towns will recognize that if they believe that the money is being spent reasonably and responsibly to rebuild their towns they'll be happy to do it. no one's ever happy with higher taxes. but the fact is, what people don't want more than anything else is waste. >> the state normally caps tax increases at 2% but provides exceptions for emergencies. new developments in the strange murder investigation unfolding in belize. john mcafee the man behind the popular mcafee anti-virus software says he isn't a killer

and fears for his life. he's in hiding after his neighbor was found dead, shot in the head, in his own home. police say mcafee is in no danger and urged him to come forward. mcafee did manage to get his side of the story out in an interview with wired.com. >> that's all i know. i have had no speculation other than the first thing i thought about was, oh, my god, he's a white man, i'm a white man, someone's, you know, the government's finally decided to off me, they got the wrong white man, since we're, you know, we live almost next door. and that actually went through my mind and actually scared me for whiquite awhile. >> three people have been detained for questioning. a small plane went down in jackson, mississippi, slamming into a house and killing all three people on board. one person inside the house escaped with minor injuries. the plane's owner says all three men on board the piper pa-32, they were pilots, they were heading to an faa safety conference in raymond, mississippi. when their plane went down. some big news for car owners.

toyota announcing a massive recall. close to 3 million cars worldwide. mostly two,000 four to 2009 prius models. 670,000 of these were sold in the u.s. >> i have a 2009 prius, what? >> very closely. here it is. it's issues with the car's steering system and their electric water pumps. toyota says, soledad, there have been no crashes and no injuries reported as a result of this problem but i think everyone, including you, who owns a prius model from 2004 to 2009 -- >> call your dealer. >> actually even those of us who don't owned prius are concerned with stars with steering or braking problems. we'd like that fixed, too. >> still ahead, some growing speculation about what nancy pelosi will announce today. you just heard from dana bash about that. we're going to talk with new york congressman steve israel. he works side by side with nancy pelosi. we'll chat about what he thinks is ahead for her. and a dramatic car accident, oh, my goodness, caught on camera. we'll tell you why the woman

behind the wheel is the last person that you would expect. that's ahead. stay with us. one.

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will she stay or will she go? congresswoman nancy pelosi has a news conference in less than three hours. she's holding it on capitol hill, of course. expecting to find out then whether or not she's planning to run for the house minority leadership position or if she's ready to hand over the reins. new york congressman steve israel held a separate press conference with nancy pelosi yesterday to welcome the new house democrats. she's also the chairman of the democratic congressional campaign committee. it's nice to see you. so yes or no, what do you think? you think she's going to say in this press conference whether or not she's leaving and do you think she'll leave? >> it's fundamentally her decision. >> i know that. >> i hope she -- >> come on --

>> i hope that she decides to stay. the only person who knows for sure is nancy pelosi. but look, here's why i hope she stays. she just helped elect 49 new democrats who are problem solvers. take a look at the footage from that press conference yesterday. 49 new democrats who are diverse, the first democratic caucus, the first caucus in history that has a majority of women, african-americans, asian-americans, hispanic-american, but more than anything else, she helped elect a class of problem solvers. people who are business people who create jobs, mayors who balance budgets, veterans who serve the country. >> you're a fan. i get it. i get it. i'm trying to get some like inside deep secret information from you. you know, the republican -- >> you have to go to the cia for that. >> oh. oh. we did just go there. maybe we'll circle back around to that in a moment. there are some who said if you're in a leadership position and the congress seems to be stuck when it comes to certain things, for example fiscal cliff, what was it 48 days and counting ali velshi.

yes he nods his head. chris christie said this about nancy pelosi. and other republicans have said similar things. she's a part a big part of the problem and any of the leaders up there are a big part of the problem if they're not trying to make the difference. you can't sit there and say well we're not talking to each other and you're one of the leaders. then you have to make a difference. that's new jersey governor chris christie. you know he's not the only republican who said she's she's part of the problem and i'm going to get they're not going to shed a tear if she decides to step down. >> there's a big difference between the republican talking points and what she actually said and what she actually did. house democrats under leader pelosi were willing to sign on to a compromise of $3 trillion in spending cuts as long as there was $1 trillion in revenues from people who can afford to do a little bit more. we want a compromise that is big, that is bold, that is balanced. nancy pelosi and the house democratic caucus was willing to sign on the dotted line to that compromise with john boehner and eric cantor a year ago. we remain ready, willing and able to compromise.

the american people have an unquenchable thirst for solutions. they have an unquenchable thirst for compromise and consensus. at that press conference yesterday it was nancy pelosi notwithstanding what governor christie has said. it was nancy pelosi who said we remain ready, willing and able to find a compromise. to find common ground with republicans to avoid the fiscal cliff. we need solutions and not sequestration. >> jonathan karl did an interview with paul ryan and what paul ryan said in this is essentially that, that the president doesn't have a mandate. karl said he won some 300 some electoral votes, every battleground state except for north carolina. does president obama have a mandate and, and he said no, i don't think so. because then nancy pelosi would be in charge of the house of representatives. and she's not. do you think that he's got a point? >> you know what has a mandate? solutions have a han date. this election was about solutions. people are tired of the gridlock. they're tired of a congress that spent more time trying to shut down planned parenthoods and open up small business. compromise has a mandate.

we go into a new session of congress and towards this fiscal cliff, again, having stated we want compromise. we want solutions. we want -- and by the way, in this election, most of the tea party generals, you know, the icons of the tea party, they ended up getting defeated in this election. so that's the mandate we have. >> so let's talk about solutions for a moment. i'm only asking this because i'm a long islander. what's going on with lipa and who is in charge of lipa and when are they going to fix the problems from lipa. that's the long island power authority for people who aren't following this story every day. three weeks almost without power? >> it's outrageous and unacceptable. my job was to try and elect a majority of the house but my fundamental job is getting long islanders back in their homes and getting the lights on. our utility, lipa was a disaster trying to manage a disaster. now the head of lipa has resigned. that place needs a top-to-bottom -- >> but he's the coo. there is no ceo of lipa. doesn't that mean that the governor is ee is exly in charge

of lipa so everybody's pointing fingers aren't the fingers going right back to the government? >> there's got to be accountability. the guy in charge of lipa was mike hervey. the bus stopped with him. he's decided to leave. governor como said this thing needs top to bottom overhaul. here's what really went wrong. lipa ignored the warning signs. we had a hurricane a year ago. lipa knew another one was coming. they neglected those warnings signs. too many people were without power. too many people were without lights. the head of lipa has now left lipa and now we need to appoint somebody who is going to put that agency through a top-to-bottom reform. we're not asking them to figure out how to get us out of afghanistan or how to cure cancer. we're asking them how to keep the lights on. and they failed on that task. >> you got a bunch of furious long islanders i've got to tell you which any politician knows is not a pretty thing. all right, sir, nice to see you steve israel joining us this morning we appreciate it. still ahead on "starting point" this morning, if you want to secede from the united states, the white house is going to look into that for you.

there's a number of petitions popping up about secession. texas. i'm so glad will cain is on our "starting point" team this morning. we're going to talk about the great state of texas. >> i have an independent texas.f . because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. buy now. save later.

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morning, welcome, everybody. nice to have you with us this morning. we've got to introduce our team joining us, richard socarides is with us, a writer for newyorker.com. former senior adviser to president clinton. person on prompter, back down a little. >> i'm new. >> i need his introduction. he is a political reporter for

buzzfeed.com. will cain is back. columnist for theblaze.com. >> follow the prompter. >> you're an evil, evil man. since the president was re-elected last week the whitehouse.gov website has received 36 p/e significances from states that want to secede from the united states. the white house said it will honor its responsibility to review and respond to petitions from the people who want to secede as long as they get more than 25,000 signatures. the state of louisiana, the state of texas and the state of florida have hit that mark. texas has 94,000 online -- whoo, a whole 94,000 signatures. from the great state of texas, that has 27 million people. >> when i put that petition together i never thought that i'd get so many people to sign on. you know, i got to tell you, i had this conversation last night but the day after the presidential election i woke up and i was basically emotionally in the same state i was the day before the election. i'm a little surprised at the conservatives that are so

distraught. american exceptionalism doesn't have anything to do with who is sitting in the white house. it has to do with the fact that everyone woke up the next day, thought about their families, their ambitions, got back to work and went on with their life. i can't stand the emotional freakout. >> you're poetic and i agree with you. >> this is similar to what liberals used to say after the election when they lost, that they're going to move to canada. this speaks more about -- sorry about that. canada is nice. sort of. when you're saying this, you're turning your back on america. i don't like it. i don't like it. >> a lot of canadians always wanted to secede. >> quebec has just elected another independent party that is talking about secession. but at some point, and while the aspirations are very valid in quebec, because they have language issues, the idea is that it gives you a little bit of political sway if it looks like it's real. it doesn't look like it's real in texas, louisiana and florida. >> it's not going to happen. it's like new orleans and louisiana. >> all three of those states have islands. so 94,000 people could just take

an island. >> this is such a crazy conversation. >> i know. which is why we're moving on. >> don't you think will cain -- >> no, no, no. >> because you were surprised by the election. >> moving on. will cain said i like you best of anyone on the panel today. ahead on "starting point," doctor of the year has been involved in a frightening car crash. we showed you the pictures at the end of our last segment. take a look at this. that is unbelievable. now she's in a lot of trouble. we'll explain what happened. then newt gingrich and callista gingrich are going to join us. they're talking about nancy pelosi's next move, the fiscal cliff. the scandal going on with the generals, and their new books. that's all ahead. where others fail, droid powers through.

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good morning, welcome back, v. you're watching "starting point." let's begin with john berman. >> thanks, soledad. a couple of stranded snowboarders are safe at home with their families this morning

after being stuck in washington's mount rainier national park for two nights. they dug a snow cave against 70-mile-per-hour winds, whiteout conditions, and two to four feet of snow. they're lucky rangers say they see more people die on that range than anywhere else in the park. the man behind elmo cleared. an accuser who said he had an underage sexual relationship with elmo puppeteer kevin clash is now changing his story. the anonymous accuser, now 24, has said he had a relationship with clash when he was 16. but now, through his attorney, the accuser says it was an adult, consensual relationship. members of the house subcommittee and oversight investigators will hold a hearing today on a recent deadly outbreak of meningitis. the injections have resulted in at least 32 deaths so far. the president of the new england compounding center will appear at today's hearing along with the fda commissioner and state health officials from massachusetts. a boston area emergency room physician is pleading not guilty to charges that she caused a

multivehicle chain reaction crash while driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol. this is a bad one. it was all caught on traffic cam. police say the doctor first struck a delivery truck, then backed into a fence and knocked over a granite post, that sent her car airborne. she side swiped a tree before hitting another car, that vehicle struck a box trailer which was being towed by a dump truck. it's a bad situation in general. soledad. >> wow, that's awful. all right, john, thank you for the update. until a week ago we were chatting with newt gingrich who gave us a very frank deconstruction on why mitt romney lost the election. since then he's been telling his party it's going to take some tough medicine to realign with the american people. want to welcome back the former presidential candidate along with his wife calista. you both have books out. newt gingrich's book is called "victory at yorktown" and this is a historical novel so it's fictional account but it's based on historical facts. >> based on what actually happened. >> and callista's got a book called "land of the pilgrims'

pride." my kids would love this. walk-through of the 13 original colonies and what brought them to be. we're going to keep you around for a bit this morning. i want to talk about the fiscal cliff. because 48 days and counting, kind of like this big tic toc, tic toc going. how likely do you think that there will be compromise? anybody can jump in. >> i think the odds are fairly high they will muddle through in some form. i just think the pressures will be great enough, they'll feel they can't go home without doing something. it will probably look inelegant, and nobody will be particularly happy. but we'll get to january. is my guess. >> if we don't, you end up having high unemployment, right? predictions are 9.1%. you end up having -- >> i mean i think people need to be worried that we're going to have high unemployment no matter what we do. because you have a european situation getting worse every day. you have japan, which is the forerunner of this whole mess, has now been basically recession since 1989.

and you have, i think, a slowing of china and india in a way that is not helpful. so i think there's real pressure on the president and the congress not just to muddle through for the next 45 days, but to think about what's our strategy for 2013 as a country, to rye to get this country back on track? >> nancy pelosi. stays or goes? >> it's entirely her call. >> why is that? of course it's -- but do you think she's going to stay or go? everyone i ask, well, it's up to her. >> well, my hunch is, i know nothing of this as you can imagine, nonesy is one of the people who calls and says -- >> let me run this by you. >> my hunch is that the president will ask her to stay and then she'll stay. but i think he sees a team he's worked with for four years. she and harry reid have delivered for him consistently, and my guess is he'll say to her, can't you stay a little bit longer, and my guess is she probably will stay. >> she's really kept it secret. >> i know. which is unusual.

in d.c. >> i tried to find out myself. and nobody knows. people who would know don't know. >> don't know or aren't telling you? >> they don't know. >> she may not know. she was waiting for the election results. i think had the election results come out the way we hoped they would, she probably would have retired. who wants to serve with them. now that it's turned out very different i think she may be thinking, you know, i can be helpful so the president. and be the big decisions to be made. she's been in public life a long time. >> i mention you're going to talk about your book. i don't want you to think we've forgotten about that. i want to ask a little bit about these generals. what's happening? you write a lot of historical fiction, obviously, you're a student of history. >> i think this is one of those random events that you -- i'm a historian and not a political scientist. i think anything which has lines is wrong because it's not how humans function. you have to ask yourself, this is a human mistake on the part of petraeus. we have no idea with allen yet

what happened, if anything in fact did happen. the strongest that i've seen so far is he used the word sweetheart, which frankly for some parts of the country is a reference to how you doing, love? with no meaning. so we don't know about allen. and petraeus' case he displayed human weakness. but the amazing substory here is how can somebody at a four-star level, who has seen the national security agency, think that you can create a phony e-mail account, and then -- it's the idea that people do on twitter, which was a congressman last year. stuff people do thinking they're invisible somehow. it just makes no sense. the army has a very, and i grew up there, my dad spent 27 years in infantry. they have a very rigorous culture about these things. and by the time you get to be four stars, four stars actually embody the army. there's a very deep culture there saying look, every day you're out there. you have the same challenge with the general who is probably a

very fine general who apparently was abusing his expense account and you have to say, guys, you know -- >> yeah, well, you know, there's been a rash of those stories. rash is kind of a strong word. >> rash is pretty strong. >> handful. i think more than three you're almost getting into rash. more than ten, more than three. so i do, it makes you wonder about the culture. can it be overcome, callista? do you think? i mean, do you think people eventually move on beyond scandal and say there's another act in everybody's life? >> i think we have to. but it's always very disappointing. these people are our heroes. our children look up to these people. and so it's something we do have to overcome. >> it's interesting. so the other side of this break we're going to talk about this book. we're going to talk about "victory at yorktown." because i'm curious you think there are lessons today's politicians could learn from george washington the fictional character and why children should read "land of the pilgrims' pride." also we're going to talk to kitly kelley. she's written about oprah, liz taylor, the royal family, now she's got a new book about

camelot and really impressive photos that have never been seen before. send us your end point, 20 second video telling us what you think. we might country the at the end of our show. go to cnn.com/startingpoint. one. two. three. my credit card rewards are easy to remember. with the bankamericard cash rewards credit card, i earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. [ both ] 2% back on groceries. [ all ] 3% on gas! no hoops to jump through. i earn more cash back on the things i buy most. [ woman in pet store ] it's as easy as... [ all ] one! -two. -[ all ] three! [ male announcer ] the bankamericard cash rewards credit card. apply online or at a bank of america near you.

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welcome back, everybody. we're back with newt and callista gingrich. both of them have new books on the store shelves. former speaker's book is called "victory at yorktown" and it's all about george washington. it's a fictional book but based on historical fact. callista's book is called "land of the pilgrims' pride." it's a book for children. particularly older children unless you're going to read to them. it's got a lot of facts about the creating of the 13 colonies.

a perfect age selfishly for my children. let's talk a little bit about "victory at yorktown" first. how do you find time, actually both of you, to write a book when you're busy? >> let me say first of all, i've written a lot of books. watching callista take the colonial period, figure out what to say about, say new jersey or north carolina -- >> in a paragraph. >> and how to say it, she was deeply affected by dr. seuss as a child. so she has this whole, it all has to rhyme. i mean, it has to be the right size words. >> and historically accurate, too. >> ten times harder to write a children's history book than it is to write something like victory at yorktown. we both launched what we called the american legacy book tour and people can google it. we're in like 22 places. >> between now and christmas. >> and we did it because we think learning about america really matters. this is a unique country.

it's a learn civilization. you can come from anywhere on the planet and become american. >> what are the messages from this book? you look at george washington, what could a leader today say, wow, george washington did "x" and the takeaway for me is -- >> this is my third novel about george washington. and the message in all three of them is pretty straightforward. we don't have giant problems right now. we have challenges, we have things we've got to get done in 2013. but, washington had giant problems. i mean, they were taking on the greatest empire on the planet, by the time you get to the yorktown campaign they've been fighting for over six years. people are very demoralized. they're very exhausted. british are sitting in manhattan with the royal navy. washington can't drive them out. doesn't have the military capacity to do it. and he knows he can't just keep sitting around, he knows people are getting really tired. and they're going to start saying why don't we cut a deal? and so he takes a third of his army and sends it to the south,

where they fight with general corn wallace the british commander and gradually wear him out and cornwallis decides to wait to be rescued by the british navy. our french allies show up, the thing is when you march by foot and he pull cannon by horses, they said if you will move from new york to yorktown, we'll come and help you. the french army, which is sitting on rhode island said we'll march over and join you. washington then brilliantly masked what he's doing. the british think he's still sitting here when he's already several days into new jersey. think about the moral courage. here's a guy who doesn't know what's happening, doesn't know if the french league will show up, isn't quite sure how it will all work and he's gambling the whole country. i mean this is an act of enormous moral courage. >> and risk taking. a lot of risk taking. willingness to take risk for what's right. >> i want to read a little bit about new hampshire. forgive me dr. seuss reading. in new hampshire the settlers had a very good rule, each village in the colony could have its own school. ellis thought those kids went to school just like me, it's where

they all learned reading math and history. and then you went on and talked about settlers and the indians not necessarily getting along. what do you think the message is for young people, i think my kids age, 8 and 10 and 12. >> the book is for 4 to 8-year-olds. i love this book because i love this country and i think we really are an exceptional nation. i think it's more important now than ever that our children realize why this country is so special. in this book, land of the pill grams' pride ellis learns how our country began as he discovers our 13 original colonies. i think it's vitally important that our kids understand how we began as a nation and the 170 year period of colonial america because that is the time when our characteristics and traits and americans were shaped. so it's vital that our kids understand what colonial america is about. >> a lot of history going on this morning on "starting point." i'm a big fan of history. i love studying history. it's nice to have you both with us. appreciate it this morning. still ahead, we're going to talk about another new book it's about camelot.

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it's nice to have you with us. >> your friend actually took a lot of the pictures. >> he did. he left a vast archive. they're about 35,000 images of president kennedy and his family. and i took care of stanley in the last few years of his life. he really was a wonderful friend. and he left me his archive. he also left me his marine corps locker. he used it as a coffee table. i said to him once, stanley, what do you have in there? and he looked at me and he said

nude photos. and i -- i thought he did, because stanley had a lot of women and so -- >> god rest his soul. >> that cut off the discussion right there. okay. so time passes. stanley goes to the angels. the marine corps locker is delivered and my husband said, what's in there? i said nude photos. he said what? i said nude photos. he said open it! i said, no. i said, i don't want to remember stanley that way. he said, open it! so we opened the marine corps locker. there were no nude photos. there were letters from jfk, notes from jackie. there was the press schedule. there was the box with the caroline airplane that jfk had given him. there were pt bow tie clasps, this cash of sentimental -- and

then i realize stanley probably thought i would just rag him so much, oh, you're so sentimental. you went into the tank for president kennedy, so he never told me what was in the trunk. >> he was not -- he took photos of the children, beautiful photos, but jackie kennedy was not a fan of having her children photographed. >> no. >> how did those photos come about? >> there was a law in the white house that no pictures -- and the picture of little john john in the oval office was taken when jackie left washington and went to greece. as soon as she was out of town, the president said to evelyn, call stanley and get him over here. the president gave stanley four days of exclusive shots at the white house, in the oval office at camp david. and that one photograph of little john sitting in the oval office at the desk was the only one the president wouldn't let stanley use. he said, no. that looks like i disrespect the oval office.

>> there's a picture of the president pushing his wife's hair out of her eyes. and, again -- >> jackie told stanley that that was her favorite photograph, of every photograph taken of the two of them, because it shows an intimacy and affection that jfk just never wanted to have photographed. he did care about his image. he really did. he wouldn't let stanley photograph him eating, combing his hair, playing golf. that was out. playing golf. and anything to do with hats. anything corny, except for a workman's hard hat. he would willingly put that on because he felt he was the sun of one of the richest men in america and he felt if labor -- people that work with their hands were behind him, he was quite proud. so stanley could get those. but stanley went after the indian headdress when they were on the campaign and the president said, it isn't going to happen. and stanley said, senator, i

think it's going to happen. and they went back and forth. and it did happen. it was an eighth of a second, stanley said, but that's all i needed to nail him. >> the book is called capturing camelot. fabulous. i can't tell you how it feels. >> it was a labor of love really. >> it looks like it. what a great way to honor your friend. >> and honor his friendship with the president. >> beautiful. thank you for coming in to talk to us about it. we appreciate it. >> thank you very much. still ahead this morning, democrat nancy pelosi is expected to make a big announcement in a few hours. everyone is wondering if she's going to stay in congress or she will step down. we'll take a look at that this morning. and the latest on a scandal that involves cia director david petraeus, top u.s. commander in afghanistan. and the sisters from tampa. clump crusher...crusher. 200% more volume.

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morning. welcome, everybody. will cain, move out of my shot. >> can't get enough camera time. will she stay or will she go? we'll find out in a couple of hours if the house minority leader nancy pelosi will stay in power or step down. a live report on that. petraeus web is getting more and more tangled and we're learning more about the woman, top right of your screen, who triggered the investigation that led the cia chief to resign. and we'll talk a little bit more about her contact with the four-star general, john allen. plus, he's known for making movies about history, whether it's vietnam or jfk's assassination. now oliver stone is tackling what he calls the ignored history of america. what he says is the real story of our nation. pennsylvania congresswoman allyson schwartz, james marks

oretj and patti murphy. our team this morning, richard socarides to my right, former senior adviser of president clinton. and buzzfeed.com, mckay coppins. and will cain is from the blaze.com. you may have seen his head in my shot earlier. yes, that's it. will the house minority leader stay or step down? many democratic aides, at least those outside her office, believe she's going to stay. we were in a similar position two years ago and many said she would step down after the democrats lost control of the house. that didn't happen either. that brings us to our senior correspondent dana bash, following developments.

people don't think she's going to leave, i have to tell you. >> i think you're right in terms of that poll. nancy pelosi's staff and people i'm talking to that are very close to her, they insist they don't know. that is clearly deliberate on her part. democratic sources, i suspect, do know what she's going to do. they are sworn to secrecy. no matter how hard i try they are simply not saying. she's been the house democratic leader for ten years, four of which she was the speaker of the house, led her caucus with an iron fist. the way she's handling the news about her future really shows in the words of one source i talked to, her iron clad command of detail. although i don't know her zirks i do know a little bit about her decision-making process. i'm told she has been very deliberate, very cal calculating about who in the very small circle of confidence she has told and when she tells them. she left a lot of her democratic colleagues very shocked when she decided to stay as minority

leader after she lost the gavel and now seems to be enjoying the intrigue about her future. >> let's see. what time is it now? it's 2:00 on tuesday. i'll see you right here 10:00 tomorrow morning. while i love you all very dearly, i thought maybe i would talk to my own caucus before i share that information with you. >> that meeting is just one hour away, 9:00 am eastern with her colleagues and the press conference is an hour after that. adding to this intrigue, she will appear with house democratic women. that could mean that she will say she wants to stay and remain the highest ranking woman in congress. it could potentially show how proud she is of her accomplishments, historic number of women that she helped get elected into the house. last hour, i gave one potential scenario that she could say she's staying aseader for two years in order to give young people a chance to position themselves to take over but afterwards, soledad, i got several hints immediately from sources saying don't go there.

that's not going to happen. what will she do? the betting starting out, as you said, is she is going to stay. no matter how hard i've tried -- and i have tried hard -- people who i'm pretty show know are just saying -- >> newt gingrich said, believe me, the speaker does not call me at all for any guidance. he says he believes the president will ask her to stay and she will stay. dana, appreciate it. allyson schwartz is the only democrat from the state of pennsylvania. thank you for being with us. >> good morning. >> you took office in 2005. congresswoman mary bono mack told me there's a certain camaraderie among women in office. is that true? do you guys, ladies, women stick together so to speak in these kinds of things? >> it's interesting, as the only woman representing pennsylvania, there are certainly our moments

when i'm the only woman in a room, we are still just -- well, 17%, will be 18% of the congress in the next congress. that's good. we're growing the numbers. certainly democratic numbers are more diverse. but, you know, there are times when you're still the only woman that you feel like you have the responsibility and the obligation to do this well, to work hard, to get things done. certainly i come with that kind of passion for what i do and commitment to what i do here in congress. certainly the women do have a nice camaraderie, mostly. i think that is important to have, to be able to reach out both across the aisle and to each other. we still are, as hard as we work, as visible as we are, we still are a fairly small number in congress. >> and small number around my table today, i have to point out. one in five. nancy pelosi is going to make a big announcement and we could argue with women around her she

could say i'm a role model to these women so i'm going to stay or she could say all these women around me have made big strides. it's now time for me to step down. what will she say, do you think? >> the fact is, we have no idea. i'm not going to make it up. i'm going to let leader pelosi make her announcement. i really, honestly, don't know what she's going to say. >> do you want her to stay? >> i think she has done a remarkable job. she's the first woman speaker of the house. she made history. and she has been always adept to and cared about women making progress not only in congress but in this country. economic opportunity, educational opportunity, making sure that women have opportunity is something that she cares deeply about. so i will stand with her. whatever she says, because, in fact, she does really care deeply about growing the number of women in influence everywhere in this country and being heard and being part of the debates and part of the decisions.

i'm proud of that. and i know she is, as well. >> let's talk about something less fun, which is not sitting around trying to decide if she's going to step down or stay, but the fiscal cliff. there is senator patty murray that spoke earlier this week and it sounded to me like, go over the cliff. here is what she said. >> the wealthiest americans have to pay their fair share, too. if the republicans will not agree with that, we will reach a point at the end of this year where all the tax cuts expire and we'll start over next year and whatever we do will be a tax cut for whatever package we put together. that may be the way to get past this. >> she kind of runs through that. we start over next year means we hit the fiscal cliff. do you support that? would that be something that you say let's go over the cliff? let's see what happens. >> we, as democrats, and we are more in number. of course, republicans still control the house. there's a question that most of

us believe it would not be good for our economy to go over the fiscal cliff, that we have to resolve these issues, deal with what is the right tax policy, what is the right spending policy and how do we best grow the economy? i do think we have to stand firm. it's very clear we need new revenue and republicans are saying kind of the right tone but what they're actually saying is still no new revenue. it's got to come from economic growth from tax cuts. it's not a policy that's worked for this country before. it's not a policy we believe will work for this country going forward. we have to get it right. can we get it all done before the end of the year? not so sure about that. but we ought to make some decisions and set ourselves on a path to fiscal reality and fiscal responsibility in a way that makes sure we have a way to bring in new revenue to grow this economy and to protect the government spending that meets obligations to our seniors and to our future.

that's a big lift for us to do in a few weeks. >> there's a growing sentiment to those on the left that we shouldn't think of the fiscal cliff as a cliff but rather it's a slope. it's okay if we go into it. in fact, democrats gain leverage, they become the party that then can grant tax cuts to the middle class. mckay, have you noticed that se sentiment taking hold in the democratic caucus, like patty murray suggests, or more like the congresswoman suggests? >> the way they're describing it, not even calling it a fiscal cliff, an austerity crisis, right? liberals and democrats are saying we go a couple of weeks into next year without a deal, we don't see massive, catastrophic results quite right away. and, if anything, it will push republicans to have to make a deal. although, the risk in that is that it may just embolden republicans more. newt gingrich, we just had on, we heard him say a couple of

days ago, president obama might have a mandate but the house republicans feel like they have a mandate as well. >> interesting. i'm not sure it's a slope or a cliff. representative allyson schwartz with us, democrat from the state of pennsylvania. thank you for talking with us. it will be interesting to watch this press conference. i know you will be there then as well. john berman has other stories making news today. congress wants answers about petraeus and allen investigations. cia and fbi will brief lawmakers on capitol hill today as we're hearing now for the first time from jill kelley, the tampa woman at the center of both investigations. it's a 911 call this past weekend. she called to complain about crowds outside of her house. but listen exactly to how kelley describes herself. >> you know, i don't know if by any chance, um -- because i'm an honorary consul general so i have inviolability. so, um, they should not be able

to cross my property. i don't know if you want to get diplomatic, uh, protection involved as well but now because it's against the law to cross my property since this is now like, you know, it's inviolable. >> all right. no problem. >> jill daugherty is live at the state department with more information. >> in a word, john, it doesn't mean much. seriously. there's a case, as you can see, evolving here of exaggeration as to what her role was. jill kelley was a volunteer in tampa, volunteered for an international organization, citizens diplomacy group that helped to welcome international citizens and also she apparently was helpful in some fashion, whatever that is, in promoting the free trade agreement between south korea and the united states. this might have been -- and this is speculation, but it might have been having a dinner party

to say that this is a good idea. there are many ways you can promote it. in any case she got this honorary consul award from the south korean government. it has no legal standing. she is not a diplomat. even though she was -- she had plates, we understand, on her car which said some type of consul. but, again, this is all voluntary. there is no legal support for this whatsoever. so our team in south korea, by the way, john, contacted the south korean ministry of foreign affairs and trade. and their spokesperson says that nothing is decided about perhaps pulling this award from her, but that they are currently observing the situation closely. >> meanwhile we're in the middle of a national investigation in two of our major national security leaders. thank you very much. jill dougherty in washington right now. first press conference since re-election.

we will all be watching to see what he says about the petraeus sex scandal and what he'll say about working with republicans to avoid the fiscal cliff. keep it here on cnn at 1:00 pm eastern time. wolf blitzer will have that. michael harvey announce iine will step down. many new jerseyans have been hit hard by hurricane sandy and now they will feel it in their bank accounts. governor christie says they'll likely see their property taxes go up. >> i think most of the people in these towns recognize that if the money is being spent reasonably and responsibly to rebuild their towns, they'll be happy to do it. nobody is happy with higher

taxes, but what nobody want sincere waste. >> the law does provide exceptions for emergencies. if you own a toyota, soledad, listen up. another massive recall here. close to 3 million cars worldwide, mostly 2004 to 2009 prius models, 670,000 of them sold here in the u.s. problems with the car's steering system and electric water pumps. luckily no crashes or injuries have been reported yet as a result of these problems. check with your dealer. seriously. sorry. >> still ahead on "starting point" this morning, can the white house focus on what it needs to be doing despite the petraeus scandal? retired general spider marks joins us. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals.

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>> 1:30. >> our coverage begin at 1:00 pm. >> that's why i was confused. our coverage begins at 1:00. general david petraeus and top afghanistan commander, general john allen. new details coming out about all the people involved. let's get right to general james spider marks. it's nice to talk to you again. we appreciate your time. have you had a chance to speak to either general allen or general petraeus in this story so far yet? >> i have not. i certainly have left both of those gentlemen alone. i know general petraeus and certainly know john allenby reputation but we're not friends. >> some of the e-mails have been described as more inonocuous an

flirtatious. kelley would say i saw you on television and you were terrific. and general john allen would write back, thanks, sweetheart. to some people's reading that would be an old school way of saying thank you. and others would say that's flirtatious. is that still considered to be inappropriate in the military? >> from knowing john allen's reputation, i would say it's innocuous but you don't call someone sweetheart in a form that lasts forever, which an e-mail is, unless it's your daughter, mother or wife. i can't imagine doing that. those that know him quite simply would say this is behavior that was practiced and it's not flirtatious. again, what's important is that this needs to be this negative that there isn't something there needs to be confirmed so that we can all move on.

>> general marks, this is will cain. i understand initially there's national security concerns about what kind of information may or may not be leaked from high-level generals, but it seems to me like the fbi cleared pretty quickly that that wasn't the case, bringing me to this question. why is all of this of national concern? whether or not general allen signed his e-mail sweetheart seems to me to be at the very least, frivolous. why are they issues for national debate and why are they issues for the fbi? >> the fbi has to get into the details of those various documents and e-mail that is john ellen had with jill kelley and others only because it's been raised. they have the obligation to investigate it. it's not a story i would prefer to talk about, nor you. we're still a nation at war. we have 68,000 troops on the ground and we're prosecuting an ene enemy. we have to do that right. john allen has a job to take care of an absolutely precious mission in afghanistan to ensure that that transition goes well. i'm with you, will, i would

prefer to be talking about something else of far more significant matter. dave petraeus is gone from the cia. it's important we understand there wasn't a breach of national security. paula broadwell had very close access to dave petraeus. i'm not trying to be flippant here, but what was whispered, what was said, what did she have acti access to? that has to be proven there was not risk. i don't have any more data than you do. this investigation has to run its course, let you and i talk about something else. >> i want to hear about jill kelley. maybe you don't care but someone running around calling herself honorary consul and has diplomatic plates, what's that all about? >> that's a camp follower. every community has these folks. clearly she's in a very prominent position with a lot of stars around. and she's infatuated by the stars. those gentlemen need to not

flatter themselves. she's attracted to the stars, not them. >> general james "spider" marks joining us to fill us in on all these details. thank you. appreciate it. >> thanks, soledad. 48 days to reach that fiscal cliff unless washington, d.c. acts. new op-ed to give the economy a jolt. one is for a clean, wedomestic energy future that puts us in control. our abundant natural gas is already saving us money, producing cleaner electricity, putting us to work here in america

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welcome back, everybody. we're talking about the fiscal cliff this morning. goldman sachs chairman and ceo has an op-ed this morning, called the business plan for the american revival. grab it right now if you haven't had a chance to read it. he talks about the stance of big business when it comes to the fiscal cliff debasement here is what he says, in part.

relationships between the obama administration and business community, first of all, he says has been strained but the business community vigorously supports efforts to conclude a bipartisan fiscal accord. i believe tax increase, especially for the wealthiest, are appropriate, but only if they are joined by serious cuts in discretionary spending and entitlements. number of ceos and companies agree and support principles that call for a comprehensive and balanced solution to the debt problem, increased tax revenues and decreased spending. it's a fascinating op-ed. >> i generally don't like to associate myself with telling people to read lloyd blankfein op-eds, but it's really well written. it's not new. the only thing that's new, you're seeing business leaders say, yes, i get it. we've got to pay higher taxes, but he frames it really well. he really frames the business and the president of the administration have got to come together. he starts the column that way, talks about lincoln and team

much rivals, doris kearns go goodwin's book and says this is like roosevelt after the depression before the war when government and business lders come together, you can actually do remarkable things and he ends it by saying, we are all ready to roll up our sleeves and work with the obama administration and congress to helpful fill america's enduring promise. the business community can have great influence on congress. >> a lot of people have been talking about the mandate, right? does obama have a mandate? you hear paul ryan say no, there's no mandate there. the republicans won the house so they have some kind of mandate. and he addresses that very issue in this op-ed. he said whatever it was -- >> they like a split government not for more squabbling. and i think that is 100% clear. >> wall street after 2008 overwhelmingly supporting obama, they supported romney in the 2012 election. >> right. >> you wonder how much of this is wul street and big business

who are now saying we're ready to roll up our sleeves and work with president obama, trying to make nice with him, right? they've got four more years of a democratic -- right? >> remember, we're not such a remarkable points of clarity on a lot of the platforms between obama and romney but one of them was romney said i'll get rid of dodd frank, all this regulation. he was definitely going to be bank and wall street friendly. obama, we know where he stands on that. i think he is a lot less friendly than a lot of people on wall street think he is, but this is definitely the election is over. let's get down to business. this is serious. we're all going to get hurt one way or another. let's all come together. >> who thought we would be saying hallelujah, lloyd blankfein this morning. >> exactly. >> ali, thank you. appreciate it. will that leave nancy pelosi to step down as minority leader or leave her deciding to stay as minority leader? we'll be chatting with patty murray. that's next. outrage after a victoria

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welcome back, everybody. you're watchi ining "starting point." let's start with john berman who has the top stories this morning. >> thanks, soledad. scandal now involving the former cia director general david petraeus and general john allen, standing by allen though his nomination to become nato's supreme allied commander was put on hold pending investigation with his alleged relationship with jill kelley. she is allegedly a petraeus family friend who inadvertently exposed general petraeus' affair

with paula broadwell. now we are learning that both generals tried to help her twin sister with a custody issue. heading to a safety conference and went down. all three people aboard piper pa-32 were killed when their plane crashed in jackson, mississippi. the plane slammed into a house. one person inside managed to escape with minor injuries. all three on board were pilots on their way to that faa safety conference, which was supposed to be in rayman, mississippi. comedian stephen colbert has shut down his super pac americans for a better tomorrow, tomorrow. it may have started a joke, but it raked in a lot of money.

a model strut down the runway in this leopard underwear and native american headdress at a fashion show last week. native american groups complain btd headdress saying it is meant to be worn only by chiefs and warriors who earned respect through an act of bravery or compassion. nav navajo nation spokesman says they are spitting on our culture. victoria secret has promised not to air that part of the show when it airs next month. >> what is it with people insisting on doing these culturally insensitive things? it seems so -- >> we did a story on victoria secret with another cultural insensiti insensitive moment. it was asian. >> yes. >> but they are in the business of selling -- >> bikinis, bras and underwear. it has nothing to do with a

headdress. >> these are popular -- used to be popular halloween costumes, right? the sexy native american. that was actually a costume that was very popular. and my website, buzzfeed and other websites in the last couple of years have pointed out, this is not that funny. it's actually racially insensitive and probably something we shouldn't be doing. >> you would think there's a team running this who googled these things and said, do we want to do this today? should we do black face? probably not. should we make fun of the asian culture? no, no. >> i don't know who the racial sensitivity -- >> director of racial sensitivity training. >> maybe they need a director. sound s like a great job for somebody. maybe we could get someone from victoria secret on and talk about this. >> i know a good guest. can we get that model? put that picture back up. see what she has to say about this. >> we're moving on. let's talk instead -- we're moving on. let's talk instead about historic gains for women in

congress. >> good segue. >> much more important than a model in a headdress, i think. 113th congress -- stop giggling like school girls, people. a political landscape, landmark that nancy pelosi was touting alongside newly elected democrats. >> we officially welcome our democratic freshmen. they will make our first caucus in the history of civilized government to have a majority of women and minorities in the caucus. you can applaud that. >> so while you were applauding the victoria secret model i am applauding that a record number of women have been brought into the senatesanctimonious.

>> it is sanctimony. watch it. one of the people responsible for that, in part, is washington democratic senator, patty murray. she joins us this morning. nice to have you with us. i'm going to ignore the men on the panel this morning. all they want to talk about is victoria secret models. i'm kidding, richard. >> don't pin me with all of them. >> seriously, with a record number of women in minorities in congress, what actual tangible change do you think that brings? is it just a number to talk about and there's no real difference? >> i think what's real important is when you have a diverse group of people deciding the policy for a very diverse nation, you get better policy that actually works for people and they understand it and they get that this country is better off because of that. when you have women's voices in committees on transportation and foreign policy, on budget, on all these critical issues, it

works better for the nation. >> i agree with you on that. let's talk about nancy pelosi. everyone says she's going to decide what she wants to decide. what do you think? do you think she'll stay or do you think she'll go? >> i would have no idea. i can say that nancy pelosi has done an incredible job over the last years leading her caucus in difficult times, has been a voice for many americans and i wish her well in whatever she decides to do at this point. >> another one who will not say -- >> i have no idea. >> i understand. >> i have no idea. >> let's talk about the fiscal cliff, if we can. you have said that if we reach a point at the end of this year, i'm quoting from you, where all the tax cuts expire and we'll start over next year and whatever we do will be a tax cut for a package we want to put together. which to me reads as let's go over the fiscal cliff. is that what you're saying, we should go over the cliff? >> soledad, i, like everybody else, believes we should not go over the fiscal cliff. but we are facing today a terrific problem in our country in balancing the needs of people

everywhere and facing this budget crisis that we have. whoa need a balanced, responsible, fair decision to end -- and a way to put this budget together so that everybody pays their fair share. the key to that right now is whether or not the republicans are going to continue to stand in a corner and say everybody else has to solve this. everybody else has to sacrifice. >> what can they do? let's say they do. we're not going to agree to raising taxes. are you saying that if that is the case, then we are de facto going over the cliff or the slope or whatever you call it? >> i think the republicans have a decision today. they need to decide if they're going to stay and protect the wealthiest americans from participating in this challenge that we have. if they do that, then we have no other choice but to go into next year when all the bush tax cuts expire and start over. i don't want to do that. >> that's the fiscal cliff? >> i don't think we should do

that, but they may force us to do that. >> agreeing to go over the cliff, some would say, is almost irresponsible. that raises unemployment to 9.1%. that puts millions of people out of work. that that affects your gdp. all these terrible things, that the fiscal cliff brings? >> absolutely. the alternative to that, if they insist on their position, is even worse. middle class families who have been hurt over the past number of years because of the economy are going to bear the entire burden of our fiscal challenges, whether it's cuts to education, changes to medicare and social security or whether it's they, themselves, having to pay additional taxes. what we're saying is it has to be fair. everyone has to participate. and we can't continue to allow the republicans to exclude one group of people, those making over $250,000 a year, from paying their fair share. that's what we're fighting for. >> let me turn to mckay and will

cain about this. we were discussing this in the commercial break as well. some people have said it's not a cliff. it's a slope. and what you could do is slide down the slope a couple of days. >> right. if democrats are willing to go past that point, whether we call it a cliff or slope, why would they do that? what kind of leverage would they gain is the question, in furtherance of what goal? i don't know the answer to this, mckay, if all the bush cuts expire -- that's the situation we're talking about, middle class, upper class. all of them expire. what will democrats come back with in, say, february? what will be their proposal for what the tax code should look like? i don't know. >> that's the question i have. i listen to the senator talking there and it sounds like she's willing to go over that cliff or down that slope a couple of days or couple of weeks even. where does that leave republicans, right? is she saying that they have basically not -- what are they willing to bring to the bargaining table, right? have they changed their position since last year when they were making these same negotiations and weren't able to reach a

grand bargain? what are they willing to budge on? >> that's a great question but i can't answer it. i'll turn back to the senator and ask her. >> i'm delighted to answer that. at the end of this year all the tax cuts would expire. all the bush tax cuts. beginning in a new congress, we could put forward a bill that does what we all want to do, extend the -- to put back in place tax cuts for those americans who earn less than $250,000 a year. that's 98% of americans. put that on the floor of the senate and the republicans would not want to vote against that, because that itself would be voting against a tax cut. so, i think they put themselves in a very vulnerable position. they've delayed us for nothing and have put the country in a bad spot. >> or it could be everybody. honestly, the american voter, if you effectively raise -- you, meaning all of congress, effectively raise taxes by killing the tax cuts for everybody and go over that cliff, oif got to tell you, i would not want to be holding the bag on that one, no matter what party i'm representing.

>> neither do i. but i don't want to have an unfair package. i don't want to say oh, never mind. let the wealthy keep their tax cut. we'll just put this forward. because the result of that is much deeper cuts to those things that matter to average americans. education, job training, infrastructure, taking care of our veterans. we can't allow that to happen. that will hurt us for a very long time to come. >> patty murray, thank you for joining us this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> looking forward to hearing what nancy pelosi says as well. moving on, he has made movies about jfk, vote naum. but oliver stone says the true history of america has been wrong. we'll talk to him ahead.

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episode of his ten-part documentary series "the untold history of the united states." it debuts on showtime. sometimes controversial director sets out to tell about our nation's past and the place in the world. >> we were the center of the world. there was a manifest destiny. we were the good guys. well, i've traveled the world now. i continued my education as an infantryman in vietnam, made a lot of movies. some of them about history. and i've learned a lot more than i once knew. "the untold history of the united states" airs monday night on showtime 8:00 pm eastern. nice to have you with us, oliver stone. >> thank you, soledad. >> my pleasure. why is the history, as you really think it is, untold? is there an intentional reason in your rationale? >> maybe "untold" is the wrong title. it could have been called the ignored history. this stuff was, at points, in

the newspapers or sometimes in the headlines even but it's been somewhat forgotten, like the henry wallace story. it was there. it's out there. scholars at the college level certainly know it. historians who work on it know it. but it's not in the general consensus in the high school level. >> why? >> i don't know why. it happened after world war ii. >> you point to world war ii as sort of an area that we do a pr version of what happened in world war ii, which is not the real version of what happened. what really happened? >> the first chapter is about world war ii. it's an amazing story about the u.s. and british relations between churchill and roosevelt, the conflicts. and they're allies, clearly, but the conflicts that exist between the british empire and the american empire and world war i, how world war i created world war ii. and the russian empire under stalin becomes a big issue because the british and the soviets do not agree.

churchill is very anti-soviet. it's like a three-card money game. the dropping of the atomic bomb is very much the origin myth that we get in school. we had to drop the bomb to save americans lives because the japanese were fanatics and would fight till the end. we show in the course of the chapters how the japanese were fini finished. they were completely decimated, their economy, shipping, everything. and how the soviets had come into the war and were cleaning up the japanese army and various islands of the japanese. so there was no necessity to drop the bomb but it was dropped to warn the russians and that starts basically this cold war conflict that dominates our lives and dominated our national security structure. >> i think people say there's a reason why there's not transparency, right? there's a reason why you have this narrative of here is what

america has done? >> if we study our history and got to know it better, we could understand. and our citizenry can't even begin to get there. they have points of view but we're talking about fact. we're talking about educating ourselves in how we got to be who we are. if we couldnd where we came from, we could understand where we are now. can only change the. you can't change yourself unless you know the past. >> is it young people who don't know our history? >> history is exciting and colorful. it's an intelligent documentary. it does go fast. young people can handle it. they're used to it from whatever their ipad, internet existence. >> the book is called the untold history of the united states. thank you for being with us, oliver stone. we appreciate it. >> he mentioned henry wallace during franklin roosevelt's administration, made an unsuccessful run as the party nominee. [ female announcer ] think you need to go to a department store counter

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any given sunday tourists line up to go to church in harlem. black churches are becoming tourist attractions for european visitors. jason carroll has this edition of "black in america." >> reporter: the gospel choir had paris hichltparishoners on . this is harlem, new york. take a second look at this congregation and you'll see the

black church here changing. >> inspiring and i definitely will come back. why not? >> reporter: tourists, many european, have been packing the pews of harlem churches in increasing numbers. michael henry adams specializes in harlem's history. >> it is voyeurism to a degree. i thought of it as something bad initially but it's learning more about each other and there's nothing bad in that. >> reporter: what's happening is not just white tourism but of something greater. do you see the identity of harlem shifting or changing? >> demographically, would you have to see that there is a change. the harlem of my youth, when i would come to harlem, doesn't look the same. >> reporter: statistics show hispanics and whites outpacing the number of blacks moving into harlem. >> you can no longer make the assumption that all persons who are nonafrican-americans, who are whites were tourists.

like everyone else, they were persons who lived in the community, came to the community and wanted to find a place to have a transformative encounter with god. >> reporter: changing face in harlem, still being moved by the age-old gospel. jason carroll, cnn, new york. what if there was a new way to deal with money that focused less on fees and more... on what matters? maybe your bank account is taking too much time and maybe it's costing too much money. introducing bluebird by american express and walmart. your alternative to checking and debit. it's loaded with features, not fees. because we think your money should stay where it belongs. with you. the value you expect. the service you deserve. it feels good to bluebird. get it at your local walmart.

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coming up tomorrow on "starting point" the actor, stephen baldwin, will